Around the Barrel - Transcript: Ep 025 Jeff Arnett

 

Jeff Arnett: We're going to continue to work until we beat this thing. I think we all are going to have to have the resolve to work together - whatever our differences.

 

Lucas: The sun comes up and the world still spins. The COVID-19 crisis has brought much of the world's activity to a halt. As the United States and every other country on the planet struggles to learn more about this virus and how to effectively combat it, companies much more attuned to creating a certain kind of product, find themselves needing and able to pivot toward joining the global fight. On this episode we talk with Jack Daniel's, Master Distiller, Jeff Arnett, about what the distillery is doing to accelerate its ability to join that fight, not only at home, but throughout the region it calls home. He talks with us about the unique challenge of taking expertise in one area, alcohol production, and modifying that key component for now towards going into a tanker truck and not just... around the barrel.

 

Lucas: Welcome back to around the barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniels. I'm your host, Lucas Hendrickson. The world has changed a bit since we were last with you in the summer of 2019 the coronavirus and all the uncertainty surrounding it has dramatically, if hopefully temporarily, changed the way the world works, including scrambling our plans for season three of this podcast, but we wanted to take this opportunity to let you know about what's going on in the hometown of one of America's favorite spirits makers as well as the distillery is doing for its part in this global effort. Jeff Arnett has spent 12 years as Jack Daniel's Master Distiller, but he, like so many others around the planet, is learning a lot more about virology in this moment than he thought he'd ever know. He joined us from a way more socially distanced location than when we usually talk to discuss the various ways that distillery and its parent company Brown-Forman are trying to help in this trying time. We taped this conversation the afternoon of April 2nd the same day it was announced that Jeff and his team were honored with the prestigious double gold medals at the 2020 San Francisco world spirits competition for the Jack Daniels Single Barrel select and Single Barrel Barrel Proof products. Jeff being, Jeff, didn't even mention it, but we congratulate the entire distillery team here and look forward to raising a glass with him, and you, sooner than later.

 

Jeff Arnett: Hello, my name is Jeff Arnett and I'm the Master Distiller at the Jack Daniel Distillery in Lynchburg, Tennessee. I'm originally a native of Jackson, Tennessee, just a few hours from Lynchburg and I'm very honored to be serving as one of just a handful of Master Distillers in the company's history.

 

Lucas: Jeff Arnett, welcome back to Around the Barrel.

 

Jeff Arnett: Oh, it's great to be back with you again. 

 

Lucas: Circumstances a little bit different than the last time we talked to you...almost almost a year ago. 

 

Jeff Arnett: I was gonna say normally when we do these, I don't think that we're following the social distancing guidelines. We’re usually in pretty tight quarters. Definitely unique. 

 

Lucas: Got about a hundred miles between us now. But, um, obviously the world has changed a little bit since we spoke last. And a lot of industries, a lot of organizations are shifting their focus, pivoting to try to, you know, help not only them, but also their customers through this through this timeframe. First of all, just give us an update of what's going on at the distillery. How have things changed? Is everybody safe? That kind of stuff. 

 

Jeff Arnett: Well, for anyone who's ever visited Lynchburg before, I think the town is sort of not recognizable as to what people would remember and that's simply because there's no tourism here. And we feel so blessed that, you know, on a normal day we'll have thousands of people who will pass through and visit the distillery, take a tour, you know, a tasting, eat at Miss Mary Bobo's. And unfortunately, we've not been able to do that now for about three weeks. We did shut down tourism just because we knew when the original social distancing guidelines with groups not being above 10 people trying to keep everyone six feet apart, we just could not operate the tour and still meet those guidelines. So I think we very wisely at the time shut them down. So since mid-March, we have not given any tours here and we've not operated Miss Bobo's, which, the rest of the town square largely operates off of the tourism of the distillery, so many of them are closed as well. 

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Jeff Arnett: We have at least for now announced that we would not consider reopening for tours until May 1st. We had actually announced that before the most recent information from the federal government is that they feel like the social distancing should last until they end up April. If everybody's doing the right thing there and that, that is an effective mitigation technique. I pray for all of us that it really does flatten the curve, that we see fewer people infected, that we see fewer deaths. And it's just such a sad situation that we're going through here, but we're certainly doing our best. First and foremost as any company would agree the protection of our employees is first and foremost on our mind. And we feel blessed that we've been able to continue to run the production side of our plants so even though we're not open for tours, we are running. Not necessarily at full capacity, we’ve had some issues with some employees, not, not here at the distillery, but within our supply chain, who've been impacted. You know, barrel supply is not going to be 100% for at least a couple of weeks, but we're continuing to process through what we're hearing to do the best that we can. So, we are putting whiskey away in warehouses right now and we have turned our focus, as you were saying, so many companies are not necessarily doing the things that they always do. 

 

Lucas: Right. 

 

Jeff Arnett: And they're looking for ways to get very creative and innovate and become a part of a solution if they can. One of the biggest things that we're faced with right now, I think everyone sees it and wherever they shop is that cleaning supplies and things like toilet paper are almost impossible to find here for a week or so I think that's a little bit better. But there's this ongoing shortage of hand sanitizers and things that you can sterilize surfaces and as people who are remaining open between customers and things are trying to scrub everything down, so they're going through far more of those types of cleaning supplies than they ever have before. So whatever they had in their store rooms is typically, you know, maybe it was a month's supply before, now it only lasts a few days because of all the cleaning they're doing. So we have gotten into the sanitizer business. We've run a few rounds of it largely just for our own employees who are still here working and make sure we're covering their homes and keeping them as safe as possible. But we've also had a lot of organizational groups reach out to us and we've had to set some priorities around them. We would love to give everyone who's asked for some sanitizer cases or bottles of it, but right now we're having to put focus on things like first responders. We've given some to our mayor that has gone for the local nursing home and to the police department and the fire department and people who are going to be on the front lines and helping transport people to the hospital if and when they do get sick. We've started handing out and donating and giving away sanitizer that we have bottled, but that's not really what we're good at, if you will. You know, what we're best at is making alcohol and alcohol is a critical component of most of the hand sanitizers. If you look at it, the active ingredient, most of them is going to be alcohol somewhere between 60% and 80% and we make a 70% alcohol base for Jack Daniel’s.

 

Lucas: Sure. 

 

Jeff Arnett: Ideally for a hand sanitizer company what they want is a neutral spirit. So when you're distilling it, you'll distill it at around 95% alcohol, which at the same time it's raising the alcohol content and it's also stripping any aroma or character elements out of it. And that's not normally what, of course what we're trying to do here. We're trying to put them in. We're trying to put the character into it. Our distillation columns are not really designed to deliver a neutral spirit. So we are experimenting with just how high we can distill and continue to run the stills somewhat efficiently and how much of the aroma that we can get out of it to try to strip the character out as best we can to see if we can partner with a sanitizer company who's equipped to take the alcohol base in, and add in the other ingredients. Of course what we make here as a potable alcohol, it's something that you can drink and you cannot put it out that way. You've got to put some type of denaturing agents in it. So if you're following along, if I know a lot of people who have been looking up sanitizers and how you make them, the world health organization has a fairly basic formula.

 

Lucas: That's what I was going to ask. You know how to make the alcohol itself, but as just for the limited amounts, have you been able to make for a just regional usage? Where did you turn to for that? Or did you kind of go do some other research to pull those ratios together?

 

Jeff Arnett: Yeah, working with our purchasing department and also our internal R&D group within the company, we were able to source the other ingredients. So we can take, you know, ethyl alcohol, which is typically what we manufacture. It has some sub components in there. And then add into that glycerin and hydrogen peroxide, these are the two additional elements that the World Health Organization likes to see in them. They gave me a little bit more of an astringent property so that it takes a little bit longer for it to evaporate on your hands. And that's of course ideal. You know, if people are using a sanitizer either on their hands or own on a surface, it's best if you just spray it and let it naturally air dry to get maximum effectiveness. What we were telling our employees is that if you use the sanitizer that we've produced, just rub it on your hands until it naturally dries. Don't pick up a rag or paper towel and dry it because you're going to know, you're not going to get the full effects of it. But if you, if you have 70%, 80% alcohol liquid on your hands and let it air dry, I pretty much can kill anything. So we are, we are trying to find some new partnerships that would allow us to get more fully into the sanitizer business. As a company, we've given $1 million of community support money to help with people who are losing jobs. There was like a multi-component community foundation of Middle Tennessee was a recipient of most of that. It was the same group of people that we dealt with when Nashville flooded.

 

Lucas: With the recent tornadoes as well. So it's, uh, we've, you know, sadly we've been double whammied in the middle Tennessee area,

 

Jeff Arnett: We had also given during the tornadoes to them as well, but other groups in Louisville. We’re part of Brown-Forman corporation, so our corporate offices are in Louisville. So there was a relief group in Louisville, that we were making donations to as well. But our sanitizers have gone out to fire departments. It's gone to nursing homes. It's going out to employees. We're trying to figure out a way to make more of it internally ourselves. The thing that we could do that would make the biggest difference right now is we can take a portion of our distillation capacity which is I think about 20,000 to 25,000 gallons of alcohol a day and we could basically turn over to making sanitizers for the public. 

 

Lucas: Right.

 

Jeff Arnett: Every, everyone seems to be out of alcohol. That is one of the common things that we're hearing is that a lot of the things that are in sanitizer, they've got,  but the alcohol is nearly impossible to find for now. 

 

Lucas: Well, I think in looking at the response, certainly here in middle Tennessee and going back to the Tennessee Whiskey Trail and The Distillers Guild that’s a part of that… We've seen a lot of smaller distilleries being able to react and pivot and do some stuff not only for the general public, but also for first responders and things like that. Obviously it takes a little bit more to steer the ship with Jack Daniels, you've got to kind of figure out how to do it, how much to do it and again, those strategic partnerships to be able to get it into the hands of people for whom they can do the most good with it.

 

Jeff Arnett: Right. And even though they don't have the scale of Jack Daniel's, many of the small distillers do have the advantage that many of them either have stills that are designed to rectify to a neutral spirit or they're bringing in neutral spirit as part of their processes. So they're starting with something that's at a very high alcohol content to begin with, which makes it a little bit easier to get it to the 70% or 80% with all the right ingredients in it to meet that definition that we were talking about earlier that the World Health Organization has put out of these makeshift sanitizers that people who are getting in the business of making. But, besides being Master Distiller at Jack Daniel’s, I also serve as the vice president of the Tennessee Distillers Guild. And there's been a tremendous effort among the small distillers across the state of Tennessee. I think we have about 40 DSP holders or Distilled Spirits Permit holders. Thirty of them roughly I think are now on the Tennessee Whiskey Trail and I believe the number that I heard the other day...People started chiming in, are you making sanitizer or are you not? I think we've got 20 or 21 distilleries across the state of Tennessee who were making it in some shape, form or fashion, trying to serve their communities. Like I said, everybody's in the same position we are and that is that you don't have enough to cover every one even though you would love to be able to do that. So everyone is trying to set some priorities around it. They're donating a lot of it. I think for some people they've said that, you know, for about every three or four bottles that I give away, I'll charge for one - which is enough that I can pay for the materials and the alcohol and everything to underlie it. That way, they're not going to go in the hole trying to produce it, and they're trying to be as generous as they can, but also keep their neck above water financially. 

 

So it has been a great community effort, an industry-wide effort to try to meet the shortage. We recognize that, as distillers in this particular pandemic, the product that we produce has got a lot of desirable attributes. Alcohol kills the coronavirus and there's not a lot of things that do, but alcohol is very effective. Around 70% we've been told is almost an ideal percentage because a lot of viruses are actually, they have internal protections and if you expose them to alcohol, they'll not open up their cell structure and they'll just kind of lock up and they'll survive. But if you can get some water into the mix, they'll, they have to hydrate.

 

So that actually kind of creates a little bit of a chink in the armor, if you will. And as the sail is trying to bring moisture or water in, the alcohol gets in with it. So actually 70% is more effective than 95% alcohol at killing this virus and many other ones for that matter. And a lot of bacteria have that same susceptibility that water actually helps them become more effective. 

 

Lucas: Not that I'm, you know, asking to pull back the curtain on everything, but what kind of emergency plans do you have in place for something similar to this? Obviously, this is something that none of us has faced in our lifetimes and certainly not in this century, but what kind of things do you start to do, you know, literally, you know, a month ago or so to see this coming down the pike?

 

Jeff Arnett: I wish that I could tell you. We have all kinds of disaster recovery. I have a manual that describes everything that we do in our operation and if, if all of our production capacity were destroyed, what is our best method to get back into business? And how quickly, you know, how long would that take? But this is not something that we've ever really prepared for. I think we're trying to figure it out like everyone else is. First and foremost, it was like we want to protect our employees. So we felt like shutting down the tours, even before we were being given guidance to shut down tours, we just felt like our tour guides and the hostesses that serve food at Ms. Bobo's tables there. Many of them were in that highest risk category from the standpoint of age.

 

We felt like the prudent thing to do was to shut all that down. You know, we're pretty lucky. Not every area is as free of the virus as we are. But right now Moore County is one of 95 counties that make up the state of Tennessee, but it's one of only maybe 12 or 15 counties that have no reported cases of the virus. And then the counties around us are mostly just one or two people tops. So we're kind of in a little bit of a pocket area that obviously doesn't have a lot of transient people. Maybe people are being a little bit, you know, the distancing and staying at home and things that people are trying to do is helping down here. But right now we don't, we're not one of those hot bed areas for the virus. 

 

So we're hoping that that's going to help us keep our employees safe along the way. We want to continue to make it as long as we can. Like I said, as long as we can run the distillery, we can continue to send out slop that feed the local farmers cattle. When we shut can we shut the distillery down. I mean, it is crippling to the whole food supply of our area here. One of the largest businesses other than distilling here is, if people don't work at the distillery, many of them own land and they have cattle and they take the dispensed stillage from the distillery to feed their cattle. But they're dependent upon the distillery to be running to provide that to them. Most of them don't have enough ground or hay or other food alternatives to feed their cattle. So, you know, we want to be very sensitive to that. We can't just slam on the brakes here and not distill without sending a ripple through the entire food chain - at least on beef cattle. 

 

Lucas: Sure. How are you spending your time? I mean, obviously you're able to kind of conduct your teams remotely and while also keeping them safe. So, you’ve put on a couple more hats. It sounds like across the time frame.

 

Jeff Arnett: Well, yeah. You know, we're so fortunate here too that the employees that we have, I would put them up against the employees at any company, anywhere on the planet. Just their intelligence, their skill, their passion, their love of what they do here...I've never seen it in any other place I'd worked in my lifetime. It's one of the things I think makes Jack Daniel's a very special brand. You know, it makes being a Master Distiller here even more meaningful and more special. I've told people that I would view success as Master Distiller is that, you know, Jack Daniels was a wonderful brand when I got here, when I became Master Distiller, and I just want to leave it in the same wonderful place I found it. 

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Jeff Arnett: But that goes to saying that, you know, Jack Daniels is not about the mass distiller, but about the great people of Lynchburg and the ones who work here, who give blood, sweat and tears to making it the best product they know how to make. This timeframe, you know, as tragic as it's been, as uncertain as people are feeling, they're coming in with a smile on their face. They feel fortunate that they still have jobs. You know, we’re going to do our best to, like I said, keep them safe while they're here, but for the ones who have, you know, friends or family members who were being laid off or you have no work to do, you know, it's a blessing. You don't always view having a job as being a blessing until you lose one. And then you begin to realize how precious it is to be able to take care of your family and to know where your next paycheck is coming from. And we are going to do our very best to make sure that we can maintain our operations through this. And like I said, hopefully develop a strong solution to answer the sanitizer shortage along the way, but keep, you know, keep Jack Daniels going into warehouses and coming out of warehouses. And, you know, I'm not sure if this is the best way for people to maintain their sanity, but I can tell you, I've been coming in just a few hours, you know, every other day just doing the things that I could not do remotely. And I've been on a lot of Zoom conference calls and phone conference calls like everyone else has, I'm sure who are working from home, but there are a few things you just can't do that way. 

 

Lucas: Not when you have a physical product you have to shepherd every once in a while. 

 

Jeff Arnett: You do. And we still have mail coming into the office and we don't have any of our barrel customers. We're not allowing anyone. Normally we have customers on site who are coming in to handpick barrels and then we're bottling for them and shipping them to them. And many of them, their businesses are still running. A lot of your package stores are still open. And you know, we certainly hope that they're able to continue to do that so that we can continue to supply them from here. 

 

Lucas: Right. 

 

Jeff Arnett: But it’s been kind of different to come in here, and like I said, normally we have about 300,000 people who take the tour and at any given year and to not see anybody walking through the hallways here...Normally we have in the office where I work probably 20 to 25 people, part of the management team here who shares a space together. There might be four or five people here today that I've come in and I was actually coming in today to pick up. We were doing a distribution of hand sanitizer for employees today so I came in. I've got some at the house, but I'm running using it more than I've ever used it in my life.

 

And every time I touch something from the outside or I'm going outside and I've gone picked food and had to make some grocery store run, but I always make sure that I spray my shoes with Lysol and then clean my hands really good before I come back in the house, so I don't bring anything in. Yeah. But it's just, it's a different day in time. But you know, most of our employees here feel very fortunate that they have jobs and, we're gonna continue to work and until we, you know, beat this thing. I think we all feel like we are going to have to have the resolve to work together, whatever our differences. And I know our country is so divided. This is one of the things that should be unifying and that we work together and solve it. And the more we work together and the more we, you know, listen to the guy that said we're hearing and, and being someone obedient to that, then it's gonna make a difference and save some lives, which is the main thing, not overwhelming our hospitals. The thing that I know that they're fearing the most.

 

Lucas: Well, and the great thing, you know, for the, you know, the years that I've been in and out of Lynchburg and just talking with folks and seeing the whole kind of “can-do” spirit. You, you guys have got amazing problem solvers. People who you talk about the intelligence of other people who do what they do every day to, you know, now to be given this challenge, to make a little bit of a pivot and help, you know, alleviate some of this a sanitizer shortage. You've got all your best minds on it. I know. And are going to be able to really make a big difference, I feel.

 

Jeff Arnett: We were doing the numbers the other day, but you know, currently in production for Jack Daniels, I think we're right at 650 production employees that make every drop of Jack Daniels for the planet.

 

Lucas: Which is a staggering number still. 

 

Jeff Arnett: It is, it is. But the fact that we have an average years of experience of about 10 years across 650 people and like I said, I've been with Jack Daniels, I think May 29th, I'll have 19 years. There was a long time here that I was barely what I would describe as average from an age standpoint and a seniority standpoint. So there's just a tremendous amount of expertise that we have here. And to your point, we like to say we don't change things around here very often. Every day you make it, make it the best you can. Those were Jack’s guiding words to his employees years ago. And I tell people, I look at that saying to mean that there are certain things about Jack Daniels that should not change, you know, our commitment to this wonderful water source and our grain bill and the yeast culture and new barrels and the mellowing process, and doing everything that Jack set out to do to make a great whiskey. We want to continue to do those. 

 

But at the same time, you know, Jack made that statement back in the 1800’s, so he didn't say that we should limit ourselves to the technologies of the 1800’s. If there's some way to make a better product, a more consistent product, a higher quality product, and we kind of owe it to Jack to try to do that. So I feel like our employees feel very empowered. If I have an idea of a smarter way to do things, a better way, making a better product, that we're all ears. I always say that your best decisions are going to come from the front line where people, you know, are doing the real work. 

 

Then just making sure that you have communication where people on the front lines can make great decisions day in and day out. But they also feel like they can come back to you and say, hey, I know I was told I should do it this way, but I feel like there's a better way. There's a better opportunity. And also just, you know, I've got, you know, take three or four people and throw them in a room, tell them to stay six feet apart and say, here's a problem. Can we be a part of a solution for it? And to come out of there with all of them not and saying, yeah, we're more confident that we can, we can do this. We just need to find the right partner. And we need to find out what their system will allow them to do. We're very familiar with what we have here and what its capabilities are, but finding someone who can say, yes, I can take that and it will work in my system and I'm good with it. And then set up a delivery schedule. 

 

So right now, we're investigating buying another tanker so that we can - Normally we're putting whiskey in barrels and putting it in warehouses. But in this case, it may mean that we need to put, you know, high proof liquid on the road, give it to another company and hopefully they'll be close to where we are. That way we don't have a lot of time in transit. We'll go as far as we have to find a partner who will do this for us. And what we're hoping and in the midst of this is that not only as they're making more sanitizer for the general public, but that as part of our agreement and providing them alcohol is that they're going to give us an allocation back, that we can make donations out of. For us, that's what we would really like to be able to do. All these people who've contacted us, some of them, which right now we're saying that just from a priority standpoint and the supply that we have, we can't really meet the need, but we would like to. And if we can find a company that'll make it in the volume that we're discussing, then I think there'd be a lot of people that were going to be able to help. And that's what we want to, we want to do, if we can at all.

 

Lucas: Well then and you also don't have to char the inside of a tanker truck, I'm thinking. What's your message to friends of Mr. Jack? Obviously, you know, there are fans of the product all over the world. What can you ask the man, Jeff Arnett, you know, kind of say to them in this deeply uncertain time?

 

Jeff Arnett: Well, I think first and foremost, I would just encourage people to follow whatever guidance they're getting from their local authorities, the CDC, the World Health Organization...You know, I know these are inconveniences. My world has changed over the last few weeks. Things that I was planning to be doing right now, I am certainly not doing. So there's a different tenor to my day than what I would typically have. But a lot of times, just in standard messaging to people, we certainly appreciate people's love of the brand, their loyalty to it. We're going to get through this together. And hopefully be able to raise a glass together before too much longer. That's always fun to be able to host people here, help them pick their barrels, to greet people from all over the world with open arms and a handshake and things that, you know, I hope don't become things of the past with the new normal that might come out of a virus sphere. 

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Jeff Arnett: But you know, we feel that we're such a warm and a personal brand, very hospitable when people come here, I think they get that sense. And I'm surely hoping that we don't change out of this, but we're always telling people, you know, to be responsible, not to drink and drive. Hopefully they're not out, driving around at all. But you know, I can tell you this, Jack Daniels has been part of my sanity. As far as regimen, you know, in the evenings I still have...There's one thing people have asked me that all the time is like, you know, after almost 12 years, do you ever get sick of Jack Daniels? I'm like, no. You know, I was at Tennessee Squire, right. Actually today is my 12th anniversary as Master Distiller. It is 12 years ago today, 12 years ago today, I was on my way to Chicago to be announced to the world as the next Master Distiller. I was on my way to the Whiskey Fest. But you know, it's great to have a job that you don't mind taking your work home, you know. 

 

We're facing the first Friday of the month here too. So our Good Friday bottles are going out as right as they normally do. So, you know, I'm encouraging people to, in the safety and privacy of your own home, you know, with six feet between you and anyone else, raise a glass. We'd love everybody to, once this is over with, if they had plans to come to Lynchburg that they would, you know, make the opportunity to reschedule and come back. Like I said, that's when the great privileges that we have here is greeting people from all over the world who have always, you know, they may only spend a week or so of their life in the United States, but they think enough of our brand to spend a day with us. And we, we don't take that for granted at all. It's just a very humbling thing that people love Jack Daniels and that what they feel about Lynchburg when they get here, a hope that we meet that or exceed whatever expectation they had from reading the ads or, you know, being pretty much a whiskey making town. Not a whole lot here to take our mind off of doing that. Other than, you know, the virus right now. 

 

Normally we're pretty much singularly focused and whiskeys all we're worried about. And now we're still doing that, but we're thinking about hand sanitizer and keeping everybody safe and hoping that someday we're going to see tourists back in town. Walking the beautiful hollow that's right outside my window where I'm sitting now. It's just a shame that the beauty is not being enjoyed by the thousand 2000 people that normally pass through here in a day.

 

Lucas: Well, again, Jeff, thank you for your service to the brand, to this worldwide and ongoing phenomenon. Thank you for what you've done. Best of luck trying to continue to find some solutions, and extra things that the company can add to the recovery of all this. And hopefully we will talk to you again very, very soon under slightly less trying circumstances.

 

Jeff Arnett: Yeah. I can't imagine much worse circumstances, but it's always a pleasure to talk to you. And like I said, on behalf of everybody here at Jack Daniels, thank you for the positive comments about what we're doing here. That's certainly not my work alone. It’s the work of a really talented and dedicated work group that I would put up against anyone. But together we're going to get through this and we're going to do our very best to try to help everyone that we can along the way and keep our employees safe and hopefully get back to a more normal world in the next weeks or month ahead.

 

Lucas: Thanks for joining us around the barrel, Jeff. 

 

Jeff Arnett: All right. Thank you Lucas.

 

Lucas: Around the Barrel is the official podcast of the Jack Daniel distillery. Follow the podcast on the web at JackDaniels.com/podcast. If you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate and review at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you gather your on-demand audio. Always remember with great podcasts and great whiskey, please enjoy responsibly. Join us next time for more conversations Around the Barrel. 

Your friends at Jack Daniels remind you to drink responsibly. Jack Daniels and Old Number Seven are registered trademarks, Copyright 2020 Jack Daniels. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof, distilled and bottled by Jack Daniel distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around the Barrel is intended for listeners 21 years of age and older.