Around the Barrel Ep053/Re053 - Byron Copeland 

 

Lucas Hendrickson: We can all agree that maturity can really only emerge over time. That's certainly true of both people and whiskey. And most of the time that maturity process can't happen all by itself. It needs to be nurtured, monitored, guided, and celebrated.

 

On this episode, we talk with Byron Copeland, the newly minted manager of Leadership Acceleration and Maturation Innovation at the Jack Daniel Distillery. About how his experiences at both well-established companies and startups meshes well with the world of whiskey. How working one's way into a new work family involves quite a bit of listening and about how paving the way for future leaders to enter the spirits business can be just as important as what goes in and Around the Barrel.

 

Welcome back to Around the Barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniel's. I'm your host, Lucas Hendrickson.

 

Byron Copeland: My name is Byron Copeland. Currently, I'm the manager of the Leadership Acceleration Program of the Nearest & Jack Advancement Initiative, and I'm also manager of Maturation and Innovation here at Jack Daniel's. I'm originally from Birmingham, Alabama, and I was raised in metro Atlanta, and now I currently reside in Huntsville, Alabama, not too far away from Lynchburg, Tennessee.

 

Lucas: Byron Copeland, welcome to Around the Barrel.

 

Byron: Hey, thank you for having me.

 

Lucas: Thanks for being here, man. And I'm looking forward to kind of diving into your interesting route to get to the distillery and the things you've done leading up to managing two very kind of important initiatives for the company moving forward, both the Maturation Innovation Program as well as this Leadership Acceleration Program. Tell us a little bit about how you got started with this side of what the distillery is working on right now.

 

Byron: Well, I like to start back some years ago, how I got my start in the whiskey industry per se. So seven years ago I started at Jack Daniel's Cooperage down in Trinity, Alabama. And for those that don't know, we actually make the barrels there in Trinity, Alabama, that we send up here to Lynchburg. So started there seven years ago, got a chance to spend time and lead teams in each one of the areas in that facility. So when you look at a barrel, making the heads, making the staves, raising the barrels, the assembly department.

 

So every part of the barrel making I got a chance to do, and I kind of left off being over the inventory out on the yard and making sure we seasoned that wood correctly, then sending that in. So got an opportunity to be in every department in that facility. And about two years ago, got an opportunity to be a part of this Nearest & Jack Advancement Initiative by being selected for the Leadership Acceleration Program. And that's how I got to where I am now and being at this distillery. So I graduated in October of this year and I was promoted to my current role.

 

Lucas: Okay. Obviously, we've heard a lot about the Nearest & Jack Initiative moving forward when it was announced in 2020, correct?

 

Byron: Yes.

 

Lucas: But you were one of the first two participants to go through that, correct?

 

Byron: Yes. So it's Jack Daniel's and Uncle Nearest, they came together as a partnership to put this program together to advance diversity in the whiskey industry. So I was the one that was selected from the Jack Daniel side, and then my good friend, Tracie Franklin, was selected from Uncle Nearest. So we're the first two participants to go through this program.

 

Lucas: Sure. And was it with a little bit of an express purpose of having the two of you go through this so that you could help shape what the program is going to look like moving forward? Obviously, that title that's been added to what you do, sounds like your overall kind of managing that Leadership Acceleration Program moving forward?

 

Byron: So, Tracie and I, both of us had already been in the whiskey industry, so we wanted to take someone that was already in the industry. So my background of coming from making the barrels, Tracie had already been in the industry working for Glenfiddich and others out there. So Tracie is pretty big in the whiskey industry. So when they selected us both, yes, we already had some experience, but I like to think that they selected us because our personalities were self-driven. We're going to go out there and knock down those walls. And I feel that's the reason why they selected us.

 

And when you talk about crafting this Leadership Acceleration Program, we didn't have a blueprint, right? It was just us going out there knocking down those walls, knocking on doors, and kind of crafting it along the way. And that's truly why I feel like they chose us and I talk to anybody and they always say, "Hey, we couldn't have chosen two better people." Tracie has a great personality and hopefully I match hers. But for us, it's just taking those reigns and going out there and creating this program and making sure it's impactful.

 

Lucas: Sure. Certainly, whiskey isn't the only kind of operational world that you've worked in along your career. You've had an interesting career working with Sabra Dipping Company and Atlanta Gas Light, things at Target, some other things like that. What kind of general things have you been able to bring from your work in those kinds of operations worlds into, first what you did with the Cooperage, and now what you're working on for the future with the distillery proper?

 

Byron: Well, my journey, you hit on a couple of things there. So starting out with Target Distribution, and you're talking about a company as large as Target. Some of us call it Targét, so I was in distribution, and you think about getting those products to the stores and making sure those customers have what they want when they get there. So that kind of translates to what I'm doing in the whiskey industry. So my new title and what I did, making those barrels, we want to make sure that when customers go into those stores and to look for Jack Daniel's, it's on that shelf. So I could say that was so fast-paced. And when you look at now what we do from Jack Daniel's and we're in 170 plus countries – that distribution, that logistics side kind of helps me understand how we do what we do from a Jack Daniel's standpoint.

 

And then in the food industry working at Sabra, it was more of a startup and it gave me some tools in my belt that I didn't know I needed. So I worked about 17 hours a day trying to get that plan up and running. And it gave me some fortitude that I can bring here and that I feel like I brought here. And when you talk about that Leadership Acceleration Program, in all my experience, I feel like it has helped shape it and made it successful in what we see today.

 

Lucas: Yeah, I mean, speaking of that startup idea, even though it's a company that's 150 plus years old at this point, with the changing face of American whiskey and spirits in general, are there some specific learnings that you take from that startup experience that you can then apply to what's going on at the distillery today?

 

Byron: Well, when I was at Sabra, and you talk about innovation, so I'll take you back to when Jack Daniel's started. We have this product that the world loves. It's the number one whiskey, but we're always looking for an innovative way as we can get a different product on the shelf. So we want to keep that core because everybody loves Jack Daniel's. I love it myself, but we also want to look at that innovative side of it as well. And I feel like we're doing that and with our Distillery Series and our 10 year that we just put out, and we're also looking at that 12 year.

 

And those are some things that I feel like my experience at Sabra, that innovation side, and even the innovation side from the cooperage, because we're the first cooperage when we opened in 2014, there had not been another Cooperage opened in America probably within the past 50 years. And you're thinking about some of that technology that we have at the cooperage in Trinity, Alabama, that is state-of-the-art is nothing being done like that. And so, all of my experience, the cooperage, Sabra, Target, when you talk about innovation, I think that's an important part of my job right now, and what I'm able to bring to the table.

 

Lucas: Sure. Well, we got to visit down there at the cooperage and walk through that whole process, and my clothes smelled like charred white oak for a few days after that, but it was in the best possible way, man. That was fun to get to see the behind-the-scenes look at that. And obviously you worked directly with one of the primary maturation components of this liquid in your work there. Tell us your favorite fact about Jack Daniel's barrels. What interests you about those particular vessels?

 

Byron: Well, now I'm into distillery, so I'll always say that we know that the barrel – and I always say that the barrel is the number one ingredient or for whiskey. And so, all the color comes from the barrel, most of the flavors, the esters and all those things come from the barrel, and that smokiness, that oak, those vanillans come from the barrel. And when I came here, I used to say, it's about 70%, and then you get that side-eye from everybody in the distillery like, "Nah, no, no, no, you got to have a good liquid that goes into that barrel that creates that flavor." One thing I didn't understand until 2015 when I got that job, how difficult it was. Most customers and most consumers don't understand the side, that the barrel, right? Because we're just going in there and we're just grabbing that bottle.

 

One thing I'm trying to bring is my background of making that barrel and what that barrel does to the liquid once we put it inside. And you talk about that oxidation, you're talking about the angel share, you're talking about the vanillans, the caramels, everything that that barrel imparts into our whiskey. That's the side that I want to bring and I want to put it in the forefront and let people know how important it is. So that's a good question that you asked me, but that barrel does impart a lot into the whiskey.

 

Lucas: Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's literally part of your title these days, the word innovation. And that word's gotten used in our conversations with folks like Chris Fletcher and Lexie Phillips and the other folks doing the day-to-day work there at the distillery. But it's a word that can be a little too much of umbrella. So this is why I think it's great that, specifically in your role, you are taking that component of the maturation process, which is tried and true, but also laying that innovation lens on it as well. What kind of things has the team done to break those innovation opportunities into these smaller components like maturation?

 

Byron: Well, when you look at some of the things that we've done recently, maturation plays a key part because you're looking at some of our finishing barrels that we have. So when you look at the distillery series, Goose just came out with one that was finished in toasted pecan wood chips, and you have Lexie Phillips and Josh Phillips, they just came out with their Distillery Series. And all of that is maturation, right? So yes, it is going to go into our new American oak barrels, charred oak barrels, but it's also going to be finished with other types of wood. And that is innovation in itself. And that has to do with maturation, because you're going to get those different flavors, different components that comes from finishing that liquid in those maple barrels.

 

So for instance, when you look at Josh Phillips, his distillery series, it was finished in high toast maple barrels, but it's a rye. But it was aged in our charred white oak barrels first and then finished in those, so high toast, no char. And those flavor components are totally, totally different than what we've done in the past. And the same with Lexie Phillips, her's was a rye that was finished in high toast, no-char oak barrels. And a joke here at the distillery is, which one of them sold out faster in our store here and Lexie Phillips is kind of beating Josh Phillips, but both of them are a good product.

 

Lucas: Had a couple sips of both of those Thanksgiving weekend. So, they're fantastic. But again, it's that being able to take those ideas, bring them to life, scale them up, and then turn them into these fantastic limited edition projects that folks can get their hands on when they come to Lynchburg and shop at the White Rabbit, or visit Tennessee select liquor stores around the state to pick those bottles up as well. So that's the fascinating thing to me. Jack Daniel's is such a gigantic brand in and of itself, and Old No. 7, having the success that it has. But now, these smaller projects that hew to that idea of "every drop we make, we'll make it the best we can." But also, let's play around with these new things that can appeal to these broader and yet smaller at the same time audiences.

 

Byron: Oh, yeah. So for me, when you look at these Distillery Series, I'm a Jack on the rocks. I like Jack on the rocks. But when you look at these Distillery Series and you look at the innovation, there's a lot of different distilleries and companies doing innovation, but you said it yourself, Jack is huge. We're in 180 countries. But you always can bring someone in that doesn't just drink Jack, right?

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Byron: Or Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey. You can bring something new to the table and you can bring others in and they can try some different products. That's what I like about innovation. So it is tried and tested, our Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey. We have this huge facility here, but we're making a great product, a craft product. But then we also have that innovation side to where we're pushing the envelope and we're showing our prowess.

 

Lucas: Right. Let's jump back and talk a little bit about that, not only the Leadership Acceleration Program, but also what their future looks like for that. Is it going to be something that's scaled up and how many people are working through that Nearest & Jack Initiative right now? You guys were the first two graduates. How many folks are going down the road with that right now?

 

Byron: Right now, I'm kind of crafting that next step.

 

Lucas: Got you.

 

Byron: We want to make sure that we do not lose the momentum that we have, that Tracie and I have created. I do not want to lose that momentum. So right now, we're looking at how do we craft it for the next group of candidates? What does that look like? Yes, I was the first one to go through and create that process. And for me, it's going to be very important that that next candidate has that same drive and they're going to be a go-getter, almost have that entrepreneurial spirit to where they're– because they're going to be the second ones. So it's going to be crafted for them, but they're still going to have to go out and knock down those doors and meet people and be go-getters and kind of self-driven.

 

Because no one's going to give it to you. When I started this program, I didn't know what direction. Yes, I had a little direction, but for me, because I was the first and I know how important it is, I wanted to make sure that I had those connections and met as many people along the way as I could. And for me, it's more than just learning about the process, it's learning the people behind the processes, building those relationships. That's one thing I can tell you that the program has done. I can go into my phone and I can call so many people that deal with everything from the grains to getting our bottles on the shelf. So that's one thing that I can tell you that the program has done.

 

And me going into R&D and me going into packaging and different places, kind of sharing the story of the Nearest and Jack Advancement Initiative that a lot of people frankly didn't know of. And that to me, is what you need. So we're in the process of crafting that. We do not have the next candidates yet, but there will be another candidate. And I'm looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to what they're going to bring to the table and what they're going to get out of the program, because I've gained so much in these last two years and I can't wait for the next round of candidates.

 

Lucas: Yeah. What brought you to Brown-Forman in the first place? I mean, again, was it straight to the Cooperage? Did you have any other roles in your work up through there till you started working with the Nearest & Jack Initiative? Or what was your kind of path within Brown-Forman?

 

Byron: Yeah, so my path, I started in at cooperage in 2015. That was my introduction to the whiskey industry. And I can tell you, I had worked in different industries. I worked for Target, I worked for Sabra, I worked for Atlanta Gas Light in different places, but it was heaven sent that I got that job at the cooperage because little did I know that it will open this world up. And I like to talk about it all the time. We as consumers, and I was a consumer before 2015, I still am a consumer, but–

 

Lucas: Of course.

 

Byron: Going to get that bottle and not knowing what really goes into getting that bottle on that shelf is something that I would've never imagined.

 

Lucas: Right. Again, talking about being a consumer, being a friend of Mr. Jack, even before getting with the company, how much further does one have to take a personal interest in the end product, if you will, when you're working with whiskey specifically, as opposed to working with Sabra or hummus or whatever? Not that you have to be all day everyday consumer of the product, but you have to have a certain love for it, that perhaps working in some other sort of consumable product industry, you might not. Does that make any sense?

 

Byron: Well, I will tell you this. So we talk about the science and the craft, the making whiskey, more people are being more educated about whiskey. So a lot of consumers understand more than ever before what goes into making whiskey. And that's actually pretty cool because before, consumers probably didn't understand that. And that's why it's so important for me to talk about the barrels. That's why it's so important for me to talk about, "Wait, how does that bottle even get over to Australia? Or how does it get to South Africa?" It's very important that the consumer understand what goes in there, because one, you want to make a quality product. You talk about Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey, we don't want that to taste different when it gets across those borders or when it goes across the waters. It still needs to taste like Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey.

 

So as a consumer, I'm always looking forward to taste the same. And for me, yes, we're keeping that consistency. We want to make sure we continue to make a quality product. And as a consumer, I tell you, I've read so many articles and studied so many books, and so many people in the industry now within these last seven years, to where I can truly say there's education in whiskey. So it's not something that you just drinking just to make you feel good or what have you. But it's about community, it's about conversation. People even understand now the tasting profiles of things that they didn't understand before. And now me and my wife, shes's actually, she's gotten to where she can kind of tell me, "Oh, I can taste the spice in this," or "I can taste the floral presence in there." So for me, it is people understanding. It's totally different than where I came from. Target, you're just going to buy a shirt, or you're going to buy some items in the store. But whiskey is totally different. It gets your mind to thinking.

 

Lucas: Yeah. Another word that's been brought up in a lot of the conversations we've had over the years, passion. And people bringing that to what their roles are within the distillery, whatever that might look like, being just, again, community and education and relationship, that kind of thing. All of these things factor into what's coming out of Lynchburg and has for 150 years.

 

Byron: I would tell you Lucas, something that I didn't understand until I moved here to Lynchburg, until I started working in Lynchburg. So a lot of people, even when they're on these tours and we're telling them that every single drop of Jack Daniel's comes from this small town of Lynchburg, people just can't understand that. You really can't understand that cave spring hollow, that every single drop of Jack Daniel's comes out of that cave spring hollow. That water that's at 56 degrees year round, every single drop comes from that. You'll be surprised, nobody really understands that.

 

So if I'm in South Africa, or I'm in Australia, or I'm in Chicago, you just can't fathom that, "Wait, every drop came from that little town that only has one stoplight." So, yes, it did. And so, you talk about the passion, you talk about the passion and the families and the tradition that here in Lynchburg, I mean, there's a lot of families and a lot of people that have been around for generations that work here in Lynchburg, that work at that distillery. And it is awesome to see. I'm thankful that people have adopted me in here and I've been here for two-plus years and I'm still trying to become family, but it is awesome to see it though.

 

Lucas: Yeah. Well, again, another friend of the pod, Melvin Cabler, talked about how he's been through several barrel cycles and still, that idea of kind of becoming one with Lynchburg is an ongoing process. But it also feels like everybody's pretty welcoming to people who want to come in and understand the product and the process and the history and stay true to it while also moving it forward. I think everybody who wants that is able to make their way into that family pretty easily. It sounds like you're doing the same thing as well.

 

Byron: Well, trying to. One thing I made sure to not do is come in and try to change anything. You have, now we're talking about innovation. There's going to have to be some change there on a small scale level. But you walking around the holler and just getting to know people and letting people get to know your genuine self. It's been something that I consciously think of in my mind and going down a single barrel, going over to the distillery, going over to bottling and getting to know as many people as I can. And to be accepted into this little, small town it's a badge of honor. And not too many people can do it, especially if you're not born in Moore County or serious other stuff. So I'm still trying to get there. I don't know if I gotten there yet, but hopefully I'm making a positive influence there.

 

Lucas: So you're working towards it, that's for sure. You making a really good point about, again, in this startup age, innovation can usually just mean come in and disrupt everything and maybe not have a good replacement idea for the things that you're trying to upturn, but it takes a certain mindset to be able to apply innovation ideas while also maintaining that quality and consistency that people all over the world expect from the end product here. So I have to think it takes a certain mindset to shift one's thinking about here's how we improve while also maintaining, am I getting that right?

 

Byron: Oh, yeah. So Jack Daniel's in itself, it has this nostalgia in a little, small town, when you go to the square, it has has that nostalgia that you want to keep. People from all over the world, hundreds of thousands of people travel every year to see it. And that's something that you don't want to change. When you're talking about keeping that same quality product, you got to remember, we have a yeast strain that goes back to prohibition. And telling the world that we have that, we need to make sure that story continues to be told, that we do make a craft product here. And talking about how we grow up that yeast from week to week and everything that goes into making our product. So you want to keep that, but you don't want innovation to overtake your, like I said, the nostalgia and the history. But you do want innovation to bring in more customers or people that are looking for something, just to bring them into the family of Jack Daniel's and let them try our Distillery Series, our 10 year and different things that we're bringing to the table.

 

Lucas: I've asked this of many people over the years and nobody has a standard answer, but what does an average day or week in your work life look like there at the distillery these days?

 

Byron: Well, an average day, so it can go a few ways. So when we're looking at our finished product and what we've just dumped out of barrels, as a master taster, I can taste that distillate and see if there's any off flavors. Making sure we have a quality product and if there is any off flavors, what created that? So that can be one. Another part of my day could be doing our barrel tastings, our barrel picks. So you can have some people coming in doing the barrel picks, and that is an awesome part of my job.

 

Lucas: I would imagine.

 

Byron: So we get to taste three different barrels and sitting there with the customers and talking about where they're from because they're from all over. And I get a chance to sit there and kind of talk to them, and we're knocking the bongs out of those barrels and using that whiskey thief and putting in there – we're all just having a good time and they're picking the barrel that they want, so I can be doing that. And for me, it's bringing everything into one. So I go down to warehousing and then I speak to the warehousing manager. I go to our processing. I go to our single barrel manager. So I make sure – and then I go over to the distillery. So you can never get enough knowledge. So I go over to the distillery, I sit in there and just hear their stories and look at how the stills are working.

 

You'll be surprised that – I was in there yesterday and there was a noise in the still house, and they're like, "What was that?" So you hear all these stories of people saying, "Hey, I can run this still by just listening." And for me, it's unimaginable how they do it. But that is my day-to-day is one, trying to gain knowledge, two, doing those barrel picks. And on a week-to-week basis, I can be traveling. So back in October, Lexie Phillips and I, we traveled to Dallas to do a market visit and where we were sharing tastings with people and telling them about our products. So it can change from week to week. And last week, matter of fact, a week and a half ago, I was in Louisville, telling a story about Uncle Nearest and Jack Daniel's and their relationship. So I did that in Louisville, and I was kind of talking about the Tennessee Whiskey Trail and can you imagine going to Louisville, Bourbon Country–

 

Lucas: I was going to say.

 

Byron: And talking about Tennessee Whiskey Trail there?

 

Lucas: There's still that tussle there between bourbon and Tennessee whiskey.

 

Byron: But I was able to talk about, like I said, that relationship Uncle Nearest and Jack, and then talk about what makes Tennessee whiskey special. And even in Bourbon Country, they were receptive and they love to hear the story.

 

Lucas: Sure. You mentioned before, you're kind of a Jack on the rocks kind of guy. I'm going to dip back into your previous food industry experience. Do you have any sort of favorite hummus to pair with Old No. 7?

 

Byron: Man, that's a tricky question.

 

Lucas: I've heard a lot of dessert pairings and obviously food and proteins and stuff like that. I hadn't thought about. Is there a good hummus pairing to go with Tennessee whiskey?

 

Byron: Well, I'll give you one. My favorite is roasted red pepper.

 

Lucas: Oh, me too. Absolutely.

 

Byron: Yeah. Roasted red pepper goes along with my Jack on the rocks.

 

Lucas: There you go.

 

Byron: I give you that one. I love that one.

 

Lucas: Start a sponsorship now. We got the Jack thing going on. I can see–

 

Byron: You're taking me all over the place.

 

Lucas: Yeah, that's what I do.

 

Byron: I will tell you this. No, you're taking my memories all over the place. Because I used to dip it with celery, carrots, pretzels.

 

Lucas: Okay.

 

Byron: Anyway, man, I'm all over the place with– I just–

 

Lucas: Celery – it's a neutral flavor. It's got a lot of water in it. It's going to pair with the whiskey. And so, no. Celery, roasted red pepper hummus, and Jack on the rocks. That sounds like a good little appetizer to me.

 

Byron: Oh, yeah.

 

Lucas: That's a lot of fun. Well, Byron, again, congratulations on the things you've done in the recent past and I'm fascinated to hear what's here and see what's going to kind of shape out of both of the things that you're working on right now with the Leadership Acceleration as well as the Maturation Innovation. You got quite a few things on your plate right now, sir.

 

Byron: Oh, yeah. But you know what? I am enjoying it. And that Leadership Acceleration Program is near and dear to my heart. I told you earlier, I don't want to see the momentum stop. There's a need for it. We have to continue to grow this industry on a diverse scale and there's a need for it. And when you talk about Maturation and Innovation, that is awesome. So all the time I spend in that and learning about it and you know about these new products that we're crafting, it is awesome. So I really enjoy my job and coming to Lynchburg every day and meeting these people. Because like you said, it is a family. And everybody will come in every day and everybody's speaking and I'm one of the newer ones here, but there's people being here 40 plus years. But I enjoy every day here.

 

Lucas: And that's again, another great thing I think about working with this company the way that a lot of people are is that, not only do you bring in new knowledge and new faces and new abilities, but you've got that institutional knowledge that you can tap into and really make part of what that innovation lens looks like going forward.

 

Byron: Oh, yeah. And again, it's staying abreast and it's making sure I'm educating myself and anybody can attest to it. I tell anybody, sometimes I read too much and sometimes my mind is always going, it never stops. And that's just who I am. I believe in educating yourself and then educating others through that. And that's something that I will never stop doing it. It's just go, go, go. Matter of fact, sometimes I don't even relax because I know how important this is. But I enjoy every bit of it.

 

Lucas: Well, and the future is in good hands with somebody like you doing this kind of stuff for the company. So we appreciate your time and Byron Copeland, again, thanks for joining us Around the Barrel.

 

Byron: Hey, and thank you, thank you for having me, Lucas, and I really appreciate it.

 

Lucas: Thanks for checking out this episode of Around the Barrel. You can find archived episodes of Around the Barrel on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and more. Plus on the web at jackdaniels.com/podcast. And if you like what you hear, please follow, rate and review while you're at it. Cheers you all, and join us next time for more conversations Around the Barrel.

 

Your friends at Jack Daniel's remind you to drink responsibly. Jack Daniel's and Old No. 7 are registered trademarks, copyright 2023, Jack Daniel's. Tennessee Whiskey, 40% Alcohol by Volume, 80 proof, distilled and bottled by Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around the Barrel is intended for listeners 21 years of age and older.