Around the Barrel Ep061/Re060 - Jack and Coke
Lucas Hendrickson: Even when you have two great things that go great together, bringing them together is rarely a simple process, especially when both things carve out massive places in the environment in which they operate. Then again, sometimes things work out just right.
On this episode, we talk with two of the key figures in bringing the iconic combination of Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola into a single package, about how now was the right time to combine forces on a project like this, about the unique properties each brand brings to the world of ready-to-drink adult beverages, and about how a cocktail known the world over benefits from this chance to go into a can from Around the Barrel.
Welcome back to Around the Barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniel's. I'm your host, Lucas Hendrickson.
Maureen Brekka: I'm Maureen Brekka. I'm the global managing director for ready-to-drink beverages at Brown-Forman. I was actually born in New York City, but now live in Louisville, Kentucky.
Khalil Younes: Hi, I'm Khalil Younes. I'm the president of the emerging category at the Coca-Cola Company. I am a global citizen of French and Lebanese origin. I was born in Beirut, Lebanon, and my home now is Atlanta.
Lucas Hendrickson: Maureen, Khalil, welcome to Around the Barrel.
Khalil Younes: Thank you.
Lucas Hendrickson: As we've done this show over the past five years now, we've uncovered a lot of people for whom their entry into cocktails or just knowing about Jack Daniel's to start with, has come through the iconic combination of Jack and Coke. And now obviously it's out in a combined form as a ready-to-drink product all over the U.S. and various places around the world. Whoever needs or wants to go first, walk us through the timeline of this emerging between the two companies. Obviously, Jack Daniel's and Brown-Forman had been involved in the RTD business before this, but what brought about the combination of these two iconic brands in a single package?
Khalil Younes: I can start for the Coca-Cola Company. I would say that the background is as follows, that Coca-Cola has been extremely successful with its current business. It's an enterprise that is very focused and it has the ambition to offer more choices to consumers across a large spectrum of beverages.
And to be clear is that some of our butlers, which are distributors and they also commercialize the Coca-Cola range of beverage, are also commercializing alcohol, including for some of them, Jack Daniel's. But the trigger element I would say is the entrepreneurship of the Brown-Forman leadership who connected with the Coca-Cola Company and tried to make this happen. So in the end, this culminated in a cold call around January 2021, where we started those discussion that led to this project.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And Maureen from the Brown-Forman side?
Maureen Brekka: Yeah. Well, first I would say, I would like to say this idea was born when Khalil and I were in business school together a couple of decades ago.
Lucas Hendrickson: There we go.
Maureen Brekka: But did not actually meet until the 2021 timeframe that Khalil mentioned. So for Brown-Forman, we've been in the ready-to-drink business for multiple decades in different markets around the world as well as in the U.S. But this was a particularly exciting opportunity to take one of the most popular bar calls in the world and put it together in a beautiful and convenient can for consumers leading to the first market launch in Mexico in November of 2022.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And then when did it roll out in the US? Remind me on that.
Maureen Brekka: In the US, it rolled out last year in 2023 in the spring and through the summer.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And what was the thought process behind choosing, and correct me if I'm wrong in this, the two iterations we have right now, we have the traditional Jack and Coca-Cola and then the Jack and Coke Zero Sugar as part of that, what were the impetus behind choosing those two? Why is there not a true Jack and Diet Coke product, that kind of thing? What were the thought processes behind choosing those two to focus on?
Khalil Younes: Yeah. I can answer this is that the combination of Coca-Cola and Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is really globally speaking the preferred combination globally. There are some exceptions. Some markets where we have Diet Coke that is available. However, the overarching strategy of the Coca-Cola companies to develop Coca-Cola Zero Sugar as it's a no sugar variant. So this is behind the thought process of that combination.
Lucas Hendrickson: I see. I see. After such a long history though, as I was saying, preferred bar calls is a great, absolutely great way to put it. Why is now the right time for this partnership? What is it about this timeframe in which the RTD world truly is exploding? When you think about all the brands that are involved, the combinations thereof, flavor profiles, things like that, what is it about this timeframe that made this partnership work the best?
Maureen Brekka: Well, as you say, I mean, this is a really unique time in the spirits world and the RTD world and the category growth has been just explosive. And what we've really seen happen in the last couple of years is a transition kind of away from the malt based seltzers, which came on the scene four or five years ago, to real spirits based, ready-to-drink products grounded in real brands and quality spirit products. And so this was the perfect time to enter with authentic Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola as a spirit based RTD at the height of the category.
Lucas Hendrickson: Khali, what about from Coke's perspective?
Khalil Younes: Yeah, from Coke's perspective, the strategy of the company is really to offer more choices as part of what we call "Beverage for Life" or being a total beverage company. So again, that's an overarching strategy. In term of the timing, there are circumstances. I think that the COVID was a big triggering factor.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Khalil Younes: And the other triggering factor was a decision that was made by the Coca-Cola company at around that time to engage into alcohol. And of course, the topic of Jack and Coke or the possibility of Jack and Coke came in the front in that thinking.
Lucas Hendrickson: Not that you can probably go into detail, scientific detail on kind of bringing the two together in the best package form. However, I do kind of want to ask, what kind of formulation tests went into finding the right balance, especially as far as flavor profile goes between the two products? Was that a quick turnaround kind of thing or were there a lot of kind of conversations and any sort of internal debate about what the balance would be like for the two flavor profiles?
Maureen Brekka: We did plenty of homework.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Maureen Brekka: And also with consumers to see what their reactions were to the product. But really the drink already exists.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Maureen Brekka: And it's loved everywhere. So the task wasn't that hard from that perspective. And there is a little bit of science to it, and I would describe it, we make Jack Daniel's in our new charred white oak barrels, and that gives us this sort of threefold flavor profile from sweet aromatics like vanilla, brown sugar caramel, the wood notes that come from the barrel, kind of a toasted oak nutty flavor, and what we call brown spices, sort of cloves, cinnamon, black pepper sort of notes to it.
And that just really uniquely pairs extremely well with Coca-Cola. There's really nothing else like it. So there is some science to it and a fair amount of taste testing that goes on. It's a great part of the job, but really our mission was to make the best Jack and Coke drink that we could, that consumers already love in so many places around the world.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Khalil Younes: I will comment on that. To echo what Maureen said in term of there's a little bit of science, there were many iterations to be honest, because in a way the taste of Jack Daniel's is a little bit set, whereas with Coke, we have the opportunity to do a little bit of refinement.
And I think that when you taste the product, you will understand how perfectly blending the flavors of Coca-Cola are with Jack Daniel's, and you will also understand the precision and a little bit of the science and the art that went into that formula. So it took us a little bit of time between let's say the artists of chemistry and taste profile in both companies to come to where we landed at the end.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure. And since again, as Maureen, as you said, it's already such a well-known combination, it's very much an idea of if it ain't broke, don't break it kind of thing. But again, perfect it to be able to have it in a package like this.
Each of you kind of comment on the other brand as far as what are the characteristics, the ideas that make the brands of Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola so recognizable and beloved around the world? If you want to kind of comment on each other's brand, I think that'd be kind of fun.
Maureen Brekka: Really, it's what we see in both brands, I think.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Maureen Brekka: And they're both iconic. They're iconic American brands. They're often featured in movies and songs and art that are part of culture. We like to talk about how it's very seldom that people will love your brand so much they're willing to tattoo it on their arm. We were really excited when we saw the first tattoo of Jack and Coke's can on someone's arm show up in social media.
Lucas Hendrickson:
